by Alex Birch
My good friend and evil partner in action, Brett Stevens, sometimes lends me his Facebook account to cause chaos and confusion. I think I did it again, this time on the topic of why Turkey should become an EU member:
Jessica Graap at 3:23pm April 6
I still don't know why the American president (past, present or future) should have any kind of opinion of who should and should not join the EU. Last time I checked, America is not in Europe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Brett Stevens at 4:58pm April 6
Obama is lobbying for Turkey to join the EU because his advisors need to secure that area in order to circumvent Anglo-American dependency on Russian gas and oil. It makes 100% sense to me, but yeah, we'll see some immigration to Northern Europe, which is less fancy. But they come anyway, if not from Turkey, from the third world.
OMG, how could I make the preposterous suggestion that perhaps using geopolitical tactics to secure European energy independence is more important than some faceless Conservative’s Ultimate Law of immigration? Danish conservative Maria Johannesen at least kindly replied by inviting me over:
Maria Johannesen at 6:13pm April 6
From what you are saying Brett, it is obvious to every European that you do not have a clue about what is happening over here. And neither does Obama. But it does not come as a surprise that the world view of americans is frightening simplistic! Come live with us for a while!
Maria, if you serve the Aalborg Akvavit frosty cold, and prepare some smörrebrö, I might consider your proposal. The fact of the matter is that I've lived in Scandinavia all my life and know what I'm talking about, residing in arguably the most multicultural part of Sweden. Do I let this come in the way of securing an extremely important new gas line to Europe? No, not even when I've had too much Aalborg.
Take a good look at this picture:

This was during the time when Russia temporarily cut off the gas supply to Ukraine. This is the bully politics of the 21st Century between former Cold War blocks and the West. Get used to it folks. What the EU is planning together with America is simple:
The Trans-Caspian Gas Pipeline (Turkmen: Transhazar turbaly geçiriji) is a proposed submarine pipeline between Türkmenbaşy in Turkmenistan, and Baku in Azerbaijan. According to some proposals it will also include a connection between the Tengiz Field in Kazakhstan, and Türkmenbaşy.[1] The Trans-Caspian Gas Pipeline project if built would transport natural gas from Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to central Europe, circumventing both Russia and Iran.
So what has Turkey got to do with this? Let's look at the map again, this time marked by the transcaspian gas line:

This is why Obama's advisors (forget Obama, he's just a talking model, nothing else) are urging Europe to push this deal through. Of course, they are right - at least if the West hopes to escape energy dependency on Russia. That's why we need Turkey. Sure, we might see some negative side-effects, partly from Russia and Iran who don't like us playing around in Georgia, and some immigration to Northern Europe.
The Conservatives make me laugh. Here's what they are worried about:
Thor Poulsen at 11:40pm April 6
Brett, your country was multicultural from the beginning, you have different approaches to the subject. But you cannot turn a several thousand year old continet into a multicultural ghetto in 1 or 2 generations, it won´t work. And we don´t want it!
And regarding the nutty conspiracy theories, please take a look at the text of the Barcelona Agreement / Euro-mediterranean Union. Tell me honestly, that you would not be frightened about that? Maria posted a link to a group earlier in this thread, check it out. There you can find all the official EU documents and links... Brett, we are doomed, we are finished.
This person has first decided Europe will eventually become "Islamofascist" and overthrown by radical Muslims (there is some truth to this, but the fears projected by the Conservative parties in Scandinavia are 70% rhetoric and 30% reality. My 2 cents: the majority of Muslim immigrants will be secular liberals within 2-3 generations), and then decided that there's nothing we can do, so he gives up on everything and falls into the trap of fatalism. He pretends he cares about the subject, but in essence, he's just displaying anger and confusion. This is the state of radical Conservatism anno 2009.
In fact, the whole NWO (New World Order) paranoia is insane. Here's some brutal realism I stumbled upon earlier today:
The New World Order
1) Seek qualified scientists for appointment to natural resource allotment and conservation posts, not popularly elected officials who are law/economics school graduates as is the current practice
2) Dislike equality, evidenced by lots of German and English and yes Euro-Jewish faces among the top elite, but not one dark or asiatic member
3) Disagree with democracy government in practice and instead promote it as an illusion for public consumption to keep majority of the 90 IQ masses from self-destructing in revolt and anarchy
4) Want less people in the world, approx. 500 million (see Georgia Guidestones), so that the planet is not rapidly destroyed by acute overconsumption as the humanzee primate overpopulates itself toward oblivion
5) Frequently promote wars in crowded third world countries (very high birth rates, daily life was already hellish and subhuman) with five, six and seven figure civilian casualties, ostensibly to grab resources for creative Westerners to utilize
6) Completely ignore the uninformed public with its 90 IQ and 6th grade literacy by holding themselves above the law and keeping secret meetings between government and industry leadershipI'm seeing unflinchingly pragmatic, realistic, talented people who are capable of securing power and working together toward common, complex and immense goals, necessary evils that no popularly elected official can tackle without losing popularity. All this and they are gentle enough to not send death squads after their very vocal and very harsh critics among their own people.
The person who wrote this is pulling our strings, but is mostly correct. A NWO government may not be so bad after all, if that helps to regulate humanity and disarm unstable nations with nuclear power. Will it work? I don't know. It's not really interesting, since it's just another method of getting something done, and it's the future we're heading to. I'm sceptical of Pax Americana, or even a world government, but if our elite decide Rome-style leadership is best for humanity, let's see what they can pull off.
About Conservatives: I have much sympathy for these people. I also partly identify myself as classic Scandinavian Conservative. But I reject their paranoid world view, their socialist dogma, and their whiny approach to politics. They need to get their act together, stop pointing out Islam as the Ultimate Evil, and re-build community culture instead. As long as they see foreign policy through the lens of secular patriotism á la Geert Wilders, they spell failure to me. Let's have a laugh at these whiny Conservatives and move on.
To Turkey: Welcome to the European Union family.
What happened?
There are some truths in this article but in general I think that Corrupt starts to seriously contradict itself. Solving globalization and multiculturalism? You are loosing it guys. Is this some kind of cheap attempt to attract more popularity for your message?
Smørrebrød and Turks
Dude! It is spelled; smørrebrød. For the rest of this post - very interesting and quite factual in it's prepositions.
Northern Europe is in desperate need of more immigrants as the population ages dramatically fast. And nobody bothers to make babies anymore. Beside Turks we are in huge demand of Somalis and Pakistanians to work at our hospitals and retirement homes. The only thing that is worrying me is that we are draining the universities and hospitals of Somalia of educated labour.
As goes for gas. We got it but don' t know how to use it(That's why Scandinavian cuisine generally is shit(apart from smørrebrød)) Therefore we sell it to the Continentals and Brits who got knowledge on how to take advantage of the smelly fumes.
The Conservatives in Scandinavia are, as pointed out, a bunch of whiners. Good observation from an outsider or should I say outside insider.
Thanks for a cool website. I will definitly read it often!
Turkey
Great comments all round, with lots of gusto, but some seriously non or under-informed opinions.
Turkey is a secular democracy, regulated to a great extent by it's mahussive army and Ataturk who created their republic is lauded and much loved. He also introduced a new alphabet to reflect Turkish language and culture properly and to diminsh Arab influence that had prevailed under the Ottoman system. The vast majority of people there are Muslims, but have the ability to distinguish between religious life and social life, for example alcohol is readily available, woman are not obliged to cover themselves and in many ways is less fundamentalist in their approach to religion than the United States of America is (well, anything west of Ankara). It is a civilzed country with a great history. Go there and see for yourself, particularly HighDuke. Oh, and Obama is not a muslim. The more you keep banging that same drum, sorry, but the more a fool you look. I'm not going to even get into it the notion is that risable.
Now, back to the pipeline. Alex, you say "The Trans-Caspian Gas Pipeline project if built would transport natural gas from Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to central Europe, circumventing both Russia and Iran." Georgia (the birth place of Stalin) is Russia. What was that fiasco last year all about ? Also, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Armenia/Azerbaijani issue in relation to this.
Finally, love your closing statement on community culture .....
Yes, but no thanks.
I thought I was going argue against this, but then I read the last part: "I reject their paranoid world view, their socialist dogma, and their whiny approach to politics. They need to get their act together, stop pointing out Islam as the Ultimate Evil, and re-build community culture instead. "
Well said, I agree.
But my main interest is Europe, and scandinavia. I´m not sure if the US and Europe have the same interests anymore. I can see Europe working in close cooperation with Russia in the future.
Energy is fine, but I still prefer if Turkey will not join the EU. They belong to another civilization religiously, culturally and genetically.
That was me. I forgot to say
That was me.
I forgot to say that Turkey also belong elsewhere geographically (except for a very small part in western Turkey)
Trading migrants for energy?
I don't buy it. Nations don't to become a political union/accept refugees in order to trade.
You think the Middle-East will be a more stable energy partner? Laughable. By choosing sides with Arabia we piss off Russia and vice-versa. The simple solution: maintain friendly relations with both and drop the machtkampf rhetoric. If Europe opens its borders it will need more gas and oil anyway. This nightmare scenario of Russia cutting off gas supply to Europe isn't realistic; their economy depends entirely upon gas exports.
Britain is built upon coal and oil which the EU is trying to make sure we hand over to them. It's also home to the best minds of the planet who inhabit the best universities on the planet who could easily develop plenty of renewable energy sources. We could transcend this energy struggle if only we had a government with vision.
Sweden's needs =/= Europe's, specifically Britain's, needs.
Couple of quotes I will pick out:
"how could I make the preposterous suggestion that maybe geopolitical tactics to preserve European energy indepencence, sometimes is more important..." - we have no independence. You're not arguing for any more independence of any kind. Unless it's the independence to constantly shit on Russia.
"globalization is the real problem" - you've been advocating more globalisation to secure less globalisation the entire article.
;-)
Some thoughts
"I don't buy it. Nations don't to become a political union/accept refugees in order to trade."
It would make things easier. This isn't about trade, but about building a big pipeline. Not every nation will buy that idea unless there's a union or a pact first, because it's so politically sensitive.
"You think the Middle-East will be a more stable energy partner? Laughable. By choosing sides with Arabia we piss off Russia and vice-versa. The simple solution: maintain friendly relations with both and drop the machtkampf rhetoric. If Europe opens its borders it will need more gas and oil anyway. This nightmare scenario of Russia cutting off gas supply to Europe isn't realistic; their economy depends entirely upon gas exports."
Why do you think America went into Iraq? I don't think your free market rhetoric is realistic. And it's laughable to claim that a few hundred people from Turkey into Europe would increase oil and gas usage. Scandinavia barely uses gas at all btw. Where does Alex claim Russia will cut off gas to Europe? This is about dependency.
"Britain is built upon coal and oil which the EU is trying to make sure we hand over to them. It's also home to the best minds of the planet who inhabit the best universities on the planet who could easily develop plenty of renewable energy sources. We could transcend this energy struggle if only we had a government with vision."
I agree.
Corrupt goes COMPLETELY delusional
Here's Alex implying Russia will cut gas to Europe, Goat:
"This was during the time when Russia temporarily cut off the gas supply to Ukraine. This is the bully politics of the 21st Century between former Cold War blocks and the West. Get used to it folks".
Birch is deluded enough to think that dealing with Islamic nations like Turkey on equal terms will secure Europe energy independence. Turkey has its own agenda: "You get independence as long as we get to flood your countries and their institutions with our people and allign with our interests".
He thinks that 5 000 000 more Turkish immigrants in Europe as a consequence of them joining the EU will make Europe more reformable. And if a non-European Muslim country can join the EU, it sets a precedent for others doing so. You think Europe has too many muslim mmigrants now. They're 10% of what's to come. Obama is a Muslim, Turkey's rulling government is Islamic.
Alex is naive (drugged up or insane) to think there's no Muslim agenda in Europe. The Ummayad Arab Caliphate & the Ottoman Turk Sultanate rulled Europe throughout ALL the Dark and Middle Ages and they haven't forgotten it; their historical memory is intact. They do not consider themselves 'strangers' to Europe, even though most Europeans do. Alex is a total moron.
Corupt is against multiculturalism & globalization? Is it? WTF?
Birch is seriously deluded and blind to his own hypocrirsy. Drugs or mental illness? If neither, than its just his LATENT INHERITED GENETIC DECREPITUDE finally kicking in with old age.
Why does Alex think Europe should be allied to the USA, which is controlled by a Jewish-dominated Multicultural rulling class in collaboration with a corrupted establishment, instead of Russia, a country rulled by its own people, a climbing birthrate and a nationalist government?
Europe would be waaaaaaaaay better off under the Russian sphere of influence and Russia, as a country rulled by its own people, a climbing birthrate and a nationalist government - would positively influence the growth of local European nationalist movements much more so than being allied to the CORRUPT USA.
Yeah, Russia WILL cut gas to Europe, just like Alex implied - IF Europe continues in the suicidal direction its going. Russia is not a saviour and it's not a threat. It's a good example of what Europeans should be doing: break up Spain, the EU & UK (just like the old Kalmar union was disolved for the better of Scandinavians) and rebuild your own nation states based on common culture, history and ethnicity after you've repatriated the Muslim and other immigrants.
Don't bring more of them in just so you can cement an alliance with the Liberal-Capitalist Multicultural USA, which is allowing its society to be flooded by 3rd world immigrants from S. America, Africa and Asia while its founding British-derived ethnic groups are being depopulated and drugged by the media, consumerism, liberalism, democracy and porn. Alex, go see a doctor, man - you're delusional.
Bullshit with a pinch of sense.
It'd be nice if you could argue without resorting to incoherent frothy-mouthed rage.
"if a non-European Muslim country can join the EU, it sets a precedent for others doing so. You think Europe has too many muslim mmigrants now. They're 10% of what's to come."
This much i agree with.
"Obama is a Muslim"
This i don't. Not that it matters terribly either way.
"The Ummayad Arab Caliphate & the Ottoman Turk Sultanate rulled Europe throughout ALL the Dark and Middle Ages and they haven't forgotten it; their historical memory is intact."
Iberia and parts of the Balkans were muslim ruled, unlike the rest of europe (unless you include southern ukraine). We only have to worry about such a thing happening again if there's a large, unified islamic empire that somehow can defeat europe and somehow has a solution to the modern guerilla warfare they'd be heckled with in long-term occupations. In other words, it's not an issue.
"Europe would be waaaaaaaaay better off under the Russian sphere of influence and Russia, as a country rulled by its own people, a climbing birthrate and a nationalist government - would positively influence the growth of local European nationalist movements much more so than being allied to the CORRUPT USA. "
I don't know what planet you're living on. Russia's population is plummeting unbelievably fast (low birth rates, high abortion and death rates), and we'll probably see a largely chinese-speaking Russian Far East within our lifetimes. The USA is corrupt, as is Europe, as is Russia. Russia's a goddamn mafia state. That said, there's no reason to antagonise them. Just buy their fuel till we've viable solutions. We're jumping the gun here; reform has to come first over fighting unnecessary battles for a corrupt state. Alex doesn't seem interested in reform so much as cheering on his own side in a new international pissing contest for a new century.
Refuting Corrupt's closet NeoCon bloviation
"Not that it [Obama being Muslim] matters terribly either way."
Are you bloody serious? US Prez Obama being muslim and lobbying Turkey, a Muslim country - doesn't matter. To a closet Liberal.
"Iberia and parts of the Balkans were muslim ruled, unlike the rest of europe (unless you include southern ukraine). We only have to worry about such a thing happening again if there's a large, unified islamic empire that somehow can defeat europe and somehow has a solution to the modern guerilla warfare they'd be heckled with in long-term occupations."
Islam is a world religion, my naive closet Liberal Neo-Con 'friend' and they don't need to fight a guerilla war to get control in N. Europe because your Liberal, Multicultural Society makes terrorism unnecessary because it welcomes them into your institutions. They can reform your society. Just because they were in the Balkans and Iberia, doesn't mean that's where they wanna stop. They were at the gates of Vienna. They want the world.
"I don't know what planet you're living on. Russia's population is plummeting unbelievably fast (low birth rates, high abortion and death rates), and we'll probably see a largely chinese-speaking Russian Far East within our lifetimes".
Not with China's 1 Child Policy. As for Russia's birthrate, check it ou, clown:
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-26289611_ITM
"The USA is corrupt, as is Europe, as is Russia. Russia's a goddamn mafia..."
YOU and Alex are Corrupt.
HighDuke
Man, serioulsy....if you have any decent points to make, I'm missing them because of your approach. Less bile Duke and you may actually not come across like a complete douchebag.
"Are you bloody serious? US
"Are you bloody serious? US Prez Obama being muslim and lobbying Turkey, a Muslim country - doesn't matter."
For one thing, i don't think he's a muslim. For another, if he is, that's america's problem. I don't wish the US any specific harm, but they can all burn as far as i'm concerned.
"They want the world."
Well, fine if you think that. I'm not sure what your solution is, but all i want is very strict immigration policies. And out of the EU, but that's looking increasingly unlikely...
"check it ou, clown: "
Well, your vague three line-fragment of an article published seven and a half years ago is very convincing, but...
http://www.ekaterinburg.com/news/spool/news_id-300919-section_id-100.html
Since i could only access a part of that article you linked, i'm not sure, but it's possible it only referred to an increase in birth rate, and not an overall increase in population growth, which is what actually matters.
China won't necessarily keep the One-Child policy forever, and even without further increase, what's to stop some chinese moving into border territory? The country's pretty damn crowded, at least along the coasts.
I'm not sure why i'm a corrupt neo-con liberal unkind person or whatever in your book. Am i not angsting over Obama enough?
Re: Obama, Russia, Turkey, the EU & Alex selling-out
Here's latest stats about Russia's RISING birthrate:
http://www.russiancourier.com/en/news/2008/06/25/102636/
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2008-28-2.cfm
-"For one thing, i don't think [Obama's] a muslim".
Barak HUSEIN Obama is a Muslim. His dad was an Atheist but Islam is like the KKK. Once you're IN, you can't leave and he's considered a Muslim by the Islamic World.
-"For another, if he is, that's america's problem".
No buddy. It's Europe's problem because HUSEIN is lobbying the EU to let in Turkey and he's counting on NAIVE TURKEYS like Alex Birch to say dumb things like " Turkey is a secular, democratic country. It's not a Muslim country...I don't think Muslims are going to overthrow us"
-"I don't wish the US any specific harm, but they can all burn as far as i'm concerned".
I agree. But not as far as Corrupt.org under Alex Sell-out Birtch is concerned.
-"I'm not sure what your solution is, but all i want is very strict immigration policies. And out of the EU, but that's looking increasingly unlikely..."
Stricter immigration won't fix the problem. Millions of immigrants are crowding out a dying native European population. Just because something is unlikely, doesn't mean we should cave in and accept the inevitable decline in the "if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality of weaklings like Alex Birch. My solution is:
http://www.corrupt.org/news/when_life_is_good#comments :
Corrupt should focus on bringing intelligent MEN and WOMEN together for marriage and children instead of 'reforming' what can't be reformed. Write articles advising readers on choosing well-paying careers that don't damage the environment or crud-up minds, on how to resurrect the traditional family, Germanic pagan traditions and identity, Germanic history and Archaeology. Life is TRULY good when you're breeding better offspring to inherit your culture and who'll take the reigns and build a new civilization when the one we currently live in has rightfully collapsed.
"China won't necessarily keep the One-Child policy forever, and even without further increase, what's to stop some chinese moving into border territory? The country's pretty damn crowded, at least along the coasts".
Most of Siberia is uninhabitable. China doesn't need land for people, it needs farmland ro feed her people which Siberia hasn't got. China will be reducing her population for another 150 years.
"I'm not sure why i'm a corrupt neo-con liberal unkind person or whatever in your book. Am i not angsting over Obama enough?"
No. You're not 'angsting' enough over what kind of a sell-out narcissist loser that Alex is for reasons I've made clear in the comments to his article. But you're not nearly as bad as I thought.
So much propaganda
Where do you get the 5 000 000 figure from?
Turkey is a secular, democratic country. It's not a Muslim country.
We all know the history of the Ottoman Empire. No one here thinks multiculturalism is a good idea.
The rest is propaganda. It's conservatives like you who make a fool out of nationalism in Europe.
Tukey's democratic; it's people aren't
Where do you get the 5 000 000 figure from?
ALMOST 2 000 0000 in Germany. Something like 4 000 000 when you add up the EU altogether. Do the research. I have no time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_germany#Population_distribution
"In 2004 there were 1.739 million [4] Turkish citizens in Germany, forming 26 per cent of all registered foreigners (Ausländer) and the largest ethnic minority.[5]"
"The rest is propaganda. It's conservatives like you who make a fool out of nationalism in Europe".
Here's propaganda and Neo-conservative closet-Liberals like you Birch making a fool out of nationalism and yourself:
"Turkey is a secular, democratic country. It's not a Muslim country."
Just because it has a secular government today, it doesn't mean that the new populations that will flood into Europe once it joins he EU will be secular forever, nor does it mean that the people are not pro-Muslim in their general sympathies and Oriental in their mentality and culture. How will that help remold modern Europe?
Plus Turkey's rulling party is Islamic
Turkey has never been secular
Turkey has never been secular in the sense of the word is used in Western Europe and and Northern America. The state-run Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı (Religious Affairs Directorate) regulates all mosques, dictates to the imams who work in them, and decides all content for religious services and prayers.This differentiates Turkey from most other Muslim nations because the mosque usually controls the state instead of the state controlling the mosque. Idiots in the West think Turkey is secular just because they have regulations against wearing headscarf's, etc, but all they are doing is enforcing a slightly more permissive version of Islam. Of course, this could all change as the current elected leadership holds a more traditionally Islamist world view, but the fear of being overthrown by the rigidly Kemalist military keeps Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Abdullah Gül from doing anything radical.
Reality check
In Sweden, the State also regulates religion (see latest proposal on forcing Swedish Church to marry homosexuals). It's called nanny socialism.
I don't think Muslims are going to create a big empire and overthrow us. They will become liberal consumers, like the rest of us - a fate much more worse for all groups involved. All IMHO.
Good to see so many responses to this post. Thank you all!
Alex gets it right: 'I don't think...'
Almost, anyway...read on...
"I don't think Muslims are going to create a big empire and overthrow us".
They don't need to fight a guerilla war to overthrow you because your Liberal, Multicultural Society makes terrorism unnecessary because it welcomes them into your institutions. They can reform your society.
"They will become liberal consumers, like the rest of us - a fate much more worse for all groups involved".
Most will become consumers but a large percentage will create an established European Muslim core that will settle in and become The Establishment in a few generations and as Native Europeans and 3rd world immigrants following the Liberal Consumer lifestyle will die out from under-breeding but these die-hards will be fruitful, multiply and take over your institutions.
This is typical NeoCon 'logic' coming from sell-out Alex Bitch- not thinking in terms of centuries, but in the short-term gain = oil for immigration, which is what his retarded article is encouraging.
The fact that you consider 'us' to be liberal consumers in your article, placing yourself in the same basket as Liberal Consumer Soxiety- just shows how much of a NeoCon sell-out you've become, Alex and the extent to which Corrupt.org has departed from its founding pronciples.
"Good to see so many responses to this post. Thank you all!"
You're a joke
There's a poll on the website
There's a poll on the website of the Flemish newspaper De Standaard, asking the readers whether Turkey belongs in the EU. (http://www.standaard.be/Interactie/?poll=9643)
I was positively surprised at the results: 80% of the almost 2000 voters said no.